Comments on The Daily Bastardette: ANNOUNCEMENT! BASTARD NATION WITHDRAWS FROM A DAY...

It has troubled me for a year that so many in the ...

2008-06-27T23:57:00.000-04:00

It has troubled me for a year that so many in the adoptee rights movement cannot see outside the movement to realize others support them as well. One needn't be adopted to see the importance of civil rights for adoptees and ethics for first mothers. I may not know how it feels to be adopted, but I can read and I can empathize and I can recognize injustice and work toward justice. But the attitudes I see in some blogs from Bastard Nation members is that my support, my work, my efforts are unwanted. How sad.

Not all agencies are evil...though I tend to think nearly all are. Elizabeth at Abrazo is one such person who cares about the children of adoption and about their rights. I, for one, am grateful to know there is at least one agency out there that gives a shit and wants to help. There are way too many Gladneys and Shorsteins and LDS's out there. Why can't one good group of people in the adoption industry be respected (and yes, I know, a total oxymoron)?

The rancor and pettiness and personal attacks make me want to pack my crayons and go home. This is not MY fight, but I fight it...I fight it for all of you. And anymosity like this makes me think I don't want to fight for you anymore...not that you care. But, believe it or not, I have the ear of a few who could make a difference...perhaps I should use that ear for people who want change, not people who want to be the ones making the change.

Seriously, what's the difference, Marley? If adoptee's get rights, what the difference who did it?

As for the event coordination of the issue, if that were all that was involved, it wouldn't be a big deal. Not enough participation, then not enough. But this has been more than about registration all along, and even I can see that from the outside.

""From Kevan,Too many Che Guevara's and not enough...

2008-06-09T20:34:00.000-04:00

""From Kevan,

Too many Che Guevara's and not enough berets...""

Ain't that the truth.. The same problem is occurring on the Mother side.

Love it, Kevan!

2008-06-09T17:17:00.000-04:00

Love it, Kevan!

From Kevan, Too many Che Guevara's and not enough ...

2008-06-09T17:02:00.000-04:00

From Kevan,

Too many Che Guevara's and not enough berets...

blah fucking blah.who cares?Like anyone who knows ...

2008-06-07T01:32:00.000-04:00

blah fucking blah.

who cares?

Like anyone who knows me doesn't know I am fierce and quick?

Does anyone think I am sweet and pliant?

I am fierce of the highest order.

That is why I follow through, that is why I don't care about if you like me or if you are coming to my birthday.

I care about one thing, one thing, open records.

hate me hate me hate me, I care about one thing, open records, open records, open records,

If you want to know my personal records, read my blog.

one thing, one thing, one thing, open records

As of 12:52 today I'm calling a personal moratoriu...

2008-06-05T12:55:00.000-04:00

As of 12:52 today I'm calling a personal moratorium on this discussion For the time being, I will not be discussing the issue here unless absolutely necessary. We are still waiting for statements from Ron and/or other members of the original DAR committee.

This has escalated into an ugly situation that needs toned down right now in order for those of us involved in organizational aspects of this mess to iron out differences and come to an equitable agreement.

I won't remain silent, but we need some breathing room.

Okay... I'm ready to move on.

2008-06-05T12:15:00.000-04:00

Okay... I'm ready to move on.

roflol Sabina, i will continue this conversation o...

2008-06-05T11:56:00.000-04:00

roflol Sabina, i will continue this conversation on July 26th 2008. I'm sure you'll still be talking about it. I hope you have your facts straight then.

As a 15-year vet of alt.adoption I'm quite use to ...

2008-06-05T11:54:00.000-04:00

As a 15-year vet of alt.adoption I'm quite use to abuse.

Apparently, you didn't read all the
threads. This went way beyond disagreement. The highroad was explaining what happened,and the ethics and economic reasons behind our withdrawal, which no one was interested in hearing. The average AAAFCer is logical. Unfortunately, a small number of Heathers control the discourse and try to beat anyone into submission who disagrees with them. There are plenty of bodies along the road over there.

If you enjoy being called a liar, then I guess you don't recognize verbal abuse. ACCFC Heathers, ran on gossip and speculation. Then when it got too hot, locked down. It's so much more exciting than the truth.

The whole thing has been blown way out of proportion by a handful of people with no traction in the AdoptionLand. Nobody in AdoptionLand much cares about this dust-up. Just another Jeep Driving Genius incident.

Out of curiosity, I went over and read the thread....

2008-06-05T11:14:00.000-04:00

Out of curiosity, I went over and read the thread. I don't see any verbal abuse. I see people questioning your statements.
To disagree is not to attack. To question is not to attack.
If that's what you call attacking then it's time to toughen up.
The truth is your reputation is on the line here more than anyone's.
And as far as taking the "highroad", what road were you on over there?
This does not look good.
My advice as an outsider is stop discussing this. You are drawing more attention to yourself.

About list 'confidentiality'-After I found out Amy...

2008-06-05T03:47:00.000-04:00

About list 'confidentiality'-

After I found out Amy had been sharing information off the list, which I had assumed would be a confidential tactical organizing list, I contacted Gershom and said how did you present this to the other people on it?

She said she had put it forward as a list for organizers. (Period.)

She never said anything about confidentiality.

So apparently there was never any genuine expectation of privacy on the list.

Common sense says Duh! But amy at least certainly had no problem with passing stuff along to the agency which was fundraising off our event without our consent at the time.

What little I have put out, is either my own writing, or bit by bit as it has become public.

Geshom, actually was the person who tonight broke the news that Ron was the person who had called for suspension.

Up until then, Marley had simply said

The lead organizer of the event called for a suspension of DAR this year so it could be done right next year.

Which then what I used on my blog.

I have used times- 11am for the proposed suspension and 11:13 for Amy volunteering that Abrazo was raising money in our name.

GershomLet's be clear, Ron asked me to "be our vol...

2008-06-05T03:14:00.000-04:00

Gershom

Let's be clear, Ron asked me to "be our volunteer trainer and head monitor at the protest" on March 9th '08.

After several e-mails back and forth I accepted on March 14th '08.

So I've been working on this formally since March.

Which I suppose just shows you don't even know how ARD's own organizing and volunteer coordination was going.

Simply put you have no idea how much work I did or didn't put into this event, but even what you did see was certainly more than 2 days, and you know it.

The list came into existence VERY late in the game. Which in and of itself was insane. The list existed for less than a week before the withdrawals and resignations began.

How the hell anyone was supposed to be organizing any kind of event without the most basic of communications vehicles between the parties? It was just unfathomable.

People were exchanging personal e-mails, waiting for permission to forward things to third parties. To clean up that mess, I advocated on May 23rd, in personal e-mail to you, that a list desperately needed to be created:

"If nothing else, it wastes time to have to reiterate multiple times over some of the basic conversations."

May 20th I wrote you in personal e-mail:

One of the ideas we had, (though for all I know such may already exist), was to create sort of a 'working list' e-mail-wise, to get all of us and anyone else who will sort of be doing organizing in the lead up to the event communicating directly and up to speed on what's going on. I'm not talking about the main e-mail list for the event, but a much smaller invite only list for dealing with the details of pulling this off. We could set up a googlegroup in no time if that's the kind of thing you might want. Just let me know.

You finally created a list on the 23rd, after admitting that the lack of communication was really messing things up. But prior to that, organizers, volunteers, etc had no communications vehicle other than direct e-mail and phone.

Ron's suspension piece was a hell of a lot more than just a "request of insight into suspension."

Ron was the person who had brought up the idea of going to the National Conference of State Legislators annual meeting in the first place. Ron is the one who contacted some of us about working with DAR.

When he posted his proposed suspension piece on the 29th, this was after you had come back to us the night before with the grand total of 4 hotel rooms booked in the Best Western.

The BN hotel had more, but ultimately let's face it the numbers just weren't there for any kind of 'Mass action' as the event had originally been proposed to be.

So Ron called for suspension, and later that night the first of the withdrawals began.

I stayed on until Friday evening.

You say you've been organizing since August, fine.

Let's talk about where things stood. Me resigning as the person working the volunteers for the march was ultimately not particularly relevant because:

1. There was no permit for the March nor for the picket outside the convention center. Unless something has changed there still isn't.

2. I asked from the moment I came o board how volunteer recruitment was going. It took a long time to get an answer. When I finally did the number was first 3 people (to run a march of at the time an unspecified number of marchers- it could have been 5 or could have been 500.)

Once I was actually able to see the data, I found myself with ONE volunteer to help run the march.

So resigning at that point was practically superfluous to what Ron had asked me to do, there was no permitted march and there was only ONE volunteer.

Since you folks were clearly, shall we say, falling down in the volunteer recruitment arena, I stepped up, within 24 hours of the realization that I had one volunteer, I put out a release calling for volunteers. I specifically requested other organizers help me spread it far and wide.

Yet you never posted it to the ARD website and as far as I can tell, (since no one communicated any action to me) no one did anything with it other than me.

At the time people began to withdraw the booth had been paid for, but the additional costs for drape etc hadn't, Layfayette square had been paid for. There was a block of rooms at the Best Western with 4 booked. The Country Inn and suites had other reservations. That was the state of things.

There was no 'march' other than the possibility of people walking single file to the convention center- until the point at which enough money had come together to get the permits.

I asked you on the phone about the permits, seeing as they were shall we say pretty damn fundamental to what I had signed on to do with DAR. You said you needed something from BN. So I called BN, they said they were still waiting for documentation from you. So I brought that back to you, you said it was your fault.

Hell yes there's a lot not being said here, Gershom, I certainly agree with you on that.

Care to talk about how site traffic to use your word went "un-freakin-real" (as in wonderful) after you reorganized some aspects on the website per my suggestions?

Care to talk about how the many forms of support I gave you, personally?

Nah,that would cloud that black and white, good-guy bad guy thing certain people insist is in all this.

The truth is a hell of a lot more clouded and we ALL know it.

But from the moment I contacted you via e-mail offering to help (which you promptly forwarded to Ron without my consent) I've done everything I could to pull this ongoing disaster outta the crapper.

When I came on board you had gotten a redundant second hotel and signed the contract on if for as far as I can tell, no reason. That was the level of lack of miscommunication that was happening. 'Oh but the Adult Adoptees wanted a hotel... .'

BASIC pieces of organizing were completely absent.

I do understand you're new to this, if you remember, I gave you a hell of a lot of support about that.

Due to circumstances, some beyond everyone's control. A lot got left to you.

Yet when we spoke on the 23rd, you admitted you had been "slacking". So don't sit here and tell me I have done EVERYTHING. Not you, not bastard nation, not ron, ME. that's bullshit and you know better.

Over and over again, I kept discovering there was less there than even you thought.

I asked you how many people we had actually coming and what dates they were going to be in town for. You had no idea. That was where your idea of making the calls came from.

Fine, you can bitch about us not helping, but I was doing things like sitting in medical waiting rooms,while Marley was traveling. Both of which, you knew.

As I said even four days ago on my blog

Personally, my beef is not with Gershom.

and

This is not an attack on Gershom

My opinion of you in the last four days however, has changed greatly.

Yes marley, but sabina, has been posting stuff off...

2008-06-05T03:07:00.000-04:00

Yes marley, but sabina, has been posting stuff off of the "secure list" onto her "blog" that you've been pointing everyone to for the last week.

Why WOULD i address the slaughter BN, you and Sabina took? Its not concerned with the protest. Attention please: "BN pulled out of the protest and Marley and their lifetime member Sabina took a beating on AAAFC" Now I'd definately get "heat" for that! I would think that "that" would be outright RUDE to say.

Regardless, its all distraction from the REAL REASONS that nobody wants to "discuss," which also is fine by me.

What I really wish everyone was discussing was how cool it is that "some of us" ( even if its only 4 at a time ) get to have one on one time with thousands of leggies and worker bees.

What would you say to your state rep if you only had 5 minutes? Why not get the whole community involved in something like that. Make it fun, keep the spirit of the movement alive. Create a desire to unite for change. Step down with inspiration to continue on? Not publicly attacking one of your own that is on BN's legislative committee and then complaining about your 'own' attacking you?

Better yet, we have a writing campaign starting this Friday ( day after tomorrow ) that the entire open records supporting community can take part in.

When things don't go the way they're planned you don't abandon ship, (that would be "adoptee issues") you stick it out, take a good look at what you have and make it the best you can. Then you make the next year better. That is exactly what we are going to do.

I'm okay with BN stepping down. I have no ill feelings over that. I also have a great deal of respect for the work BN and you have put into opening records like Oregon and Measure 58.

Marley Check your email please.

I have no desire to get into this with anybody at ...

2008-06-05T01:09:00.000-04:00

I have no desire to get into this with anybody at this point.

There's a lot that could be said, but much of it comes from the original DAR Action List, which is supposed to be "private." Unfortunately, conversations from that list were discussed with third parties--a breach of netiquette, if not ethics to say the least. Amy even admits in her blog that she let Abrazo know that the agency was being discussed on the list--supposedly a secure list. What else was let out for selected public consumption? I have no idea. Maybe you don't either. I'd watch my back.

I greatly respect your work Kali and know that you've put in huge amounts of time on this project. You have not, however, addressed the issue of Ron's call for suspension which set the final phase in motion. DAR was supposed to be a mass action, not a small "protest." We wanted it done right. Your work was excellent and commendable, but there just wasn't enough time to pull it together for several reasons of which you are well aware. I understand very well why you and some others don't want to give it up. But suspension was not cancellation.

You have not addressed the verbal abuse that BLC, myself and BN has taken on AAAFC list. In my 35 years of activism (women's liberation, prison reform, anti-war work, and adoption stuff) I have never experienced such a trashing and thrashing by supposed comrades as as taken place on AAAFC in the last few days. You were not a part of that, and have taken the high ground, which I think we all appreciate. Yet a tiny group of people, without a clue as to what was going on took it upon themselves to spew hate at people who only a day or so early had been friends. That's ugly. The time spent in this hatefest could have been used to mend the situation--which in and of itself, was not nearly as serious as they (the know-nothings) made it out to be. Since I was unavailable Friday-Sunday due to travel, nothing could be done until Monday when I was home. I simply posted our withdrawal notice late Sunday evening, and went to bed since I had to go to the ACW hearing early the next morning. By Monday afternoon, all hell had broken loose with the know-nothings on AAACF--most of whom don't even post under their own names, but have cute nicknames and icons. Hardly an example of serious political commitment. As you know, the BN EC and you have been playing phone tag with you since Monday evening to settle up.

Outside of this coetrie of know-nothings, the withdrawal of BN is totally understood. It's too bad a few big mouths (not you, Kali) are ruining an equitable conclusion.

Sabina, you don't know about the adoptee rights de...

2008-06-05T00:25:00.000-04:00

Sabina, you don't know about the adoptee rights demonstration from "before" and "after" you were on the list of organizers for about 2 days. 2 days sabina. thats it.

You act like you had SO much to do with the organization and you didn't. You suggested a lot, you and others hinted to BN's withdrawl long before ron posted any request of insight into suspension.

Too much isn't being said here and you know, i don't have time for it for the finger pointing. Why? because i have a protest to work on. Nothing has changed, i was organizing it from August and I'm still organizing it. I have done EVERYTHING. Not you, not bastard nation, not ron, ME.

What did BN contribute except for $100 and their public support? what? Someone tell me please? ANYTHING?? BN withdrawling from the protest didn't change MUCH AT ALL.

I was working on it day and night PRE BN withdrawl and I'm working on it day and not POST BN withdrawl.

Not to be rude, but 2 days of you here and gone doesn't change much about the "fate" of the protest that you talk so much about in your posts.

I have held out and held out of this. When the announcement about the hotel rooms and the 4 people booked came about, NOBODY (from BN) helped me call the 85 registered protesters to confirm their attendance. It was Michelle and Amy. Amy who you've been dissing right and left and haven't even gotten the "real" story from. Personally, I hope she never tells you I hope you're left assuming for the rest of your life on this issue .

The truth is, you have no idea who we have contacted, you have no idea if we've sent anyone a personal message or how many people we've talked to about the changes while making our phone calls in the last week, and you have no idea about the annoucement thats being posted TOMORROW MORNING TO THE BLOG.

You sit here dissing the protest and I am sick of it. You did very spanking little for the protest to be talking about it as if you were "there for the whole thing before BN pulled out."

COME ON. GET REAL.

I have held my peace on this, i haven't said anything that isn't true, i have respected Bn, i waited to talk about it out of respect for marley because SHE wanted to annouce it. I have let everyone say their peace, haven't dissed anyone in the process. Waited to see how the "protest" would be treated and the HARD WORK thats been put in it. Now i see your true colors loud and clear.

10 years of activism in the open records movement didn't teach you about respect for the people busting their ass for "the" cause huh? Too bad for you.

cancel that call marley, i'm not talking with people who turn their backs on me when I'm fighting the same fight.

BLC is referring to the nicey-nice face you put on...

2008-06-04T23:51:00.000-04:00

BLC is referring to the nicey-nice face you put on here versus the ugly face exhibited on AAAFC. AdoptionLand is a very small place.

Anon said-"And a certain someone has quite an ego ...

2008-06-04T20:31:00.000-04:00

Anon said-

"And a certain someone has quite an ego to think that the protest should put out an announcement just because she left. Good grief."

I never said this was about me.

I suppose the official page COULD just sit there with an April 26th date as their latest until after July 22nd.

That said, considering how many of those of us who were involved before the change have left, I just thought they might want to let people still planning on coming that BN was out, and that other organizers, not just me have also left and new people are going to be taking it from here.

It seems the bare minimum they owe their donors at this point.

While it would certainly be nice of them to post something related to how they plan to go forward from here, (and deal with the issues raised by the Abrazo/Amy involvement,) to date, Gershom has only posted any notice of what she intends to do on the aforementioned private board.

Of course, if all that's left, are only people who are already on Adult Adoptees, then the external public official webpage could be treated as a public relic, left as is, and all organizing could take place in their little sandbox. That would be stupid, but considering the "caliber" of some of the people working on it now... .

Fortunately, what to do with their outdated webpage is ultimately not my problem.

While I'm sure the current crop of organizers would just love it if everyone just went on ahead as if nothing had happened, the rest of us feel they have at minimum, an obligation to let people who provided their information to ARD/DAR under one set of circumstances know that those circumstances have now changed dramatically.

Thus giving people the information they need to make up their own minds about whether or not they wish to attend.

YawnThis has been going on for days. Can we mov...

2008-06-04T19:55:00.000-04:00

*Yawn*
This has been going on for days. Can we move on to something more interesting now?

Talk about beating a dead horse.

And a certain someone has quite an ego to think that the protest should put out an announcement just because she left. Good grief.

This is making everyone look foolish.

Everybody, just let it go.

Keep spinning Joy.I'll note you did not answer my ...

2008-06-04T18:29:00.000-04:00

Keep spinning Joy.

I'll note you did not answer my question about the very premise of the event itself as originally stated.

Funny about that.

Folks might want to do some follow up on that, since Joy hasn't answered me yet.

It's an important question, essentially do those working on it now fully support the premise of the event?

Lets be clear, many of those of us who were part of ARD/DAR are gone now.

ARD/DAR is very different now from the way it was before prior to the changes. It is now being filled out with a different set of organizers.

I would advise people think long and hard before joining up with the likes of such.

I personally, am with holding my own full take on what has gone forward until at bare minimum the ARD-DAR webepage is updated to reflect those changes and some form of statement is put up the current organizers.

You will note that while BN has put out a statement, and some of us who were organizers have written, there remains no official word from the ARD/DAR itself that anything has even happened publicly.

Once the page changes, I will make my own decisions and do my own writing on my own blog about what I make of the current state of ARD/DAR.

I understand that you are upset, but from my exper...

2008-06-04T18:03:00.000-04:00

I understand that you are upset, but from my experience running organizations, there will always be upsets along the way, surprises and PR issues that need to be handled.

Whether or not an organization has the resources, personally, financially, organizationally or not to deal with the difficulties that can and will arise anytime in an undertaking of this scale is a question for each organization.

As I have said before the leadership is responsible to their members, luckily there were others who could take BN's place so while a big shock, a seemless transition.

There was no monies taken that were unethically raised. That is important to remember. I don't know the hearts of all the people involved in this protest or where they stand or the pro-anti adoption spectrum, my feelings about adoption are personal, this protest is about civil rights, not personalities.

This protest is about opening records for all the people listed on that record of vital statistics, just like we are real people.

Joy,Do not try to make this some kind of 'wounded ...

2008-06-04T17:49:00.000-04:00

Joy,

Do not try to make this some kind of 'wounded adoptee' handkerchief thing.

This is not woundee woundee 'oh, sad, therapy' adoptee hurt.

This is- the person on the organizer list alongside me, Amyadoptee, is directing donors into the agency fundraising (fundraising off our event without ARD/DAR knowledge or consent) kind of 'hurt'.

I.E. Someone working from within the ARD/DAR organizer list pointing people into the agency fundraising facebook page, not the ARD/DAR direct fundraising portal.

It's the difference between 'I'm so sad it didn't come together' and someone here didn't disclose their own conflict of interest with their past entanglement with the Abrazo Adoption Associates and used her blog to point donors to give money into the very agency ARD/DAR was having an 'issue' with at the time.

One is personal, the other is most certainly political.

Let's be real damn clear on that.

As for 'personality' looking at who is off ARD/DAR and who is still on, I know which side of that fence I'd rather be on.

Doubly so when people such as yourself say one thing in private and anther in public.

It's not a question of egos, it's a question of honesty.

You say open records are your focus, so let me ask you publicly; do you personally believe state by state legislative work (BN's strategy and what DAR originally advocated, particularly since it's outside the annual meeting of State Legislatures) is the best strategy to work for open records going forward? If not, why are you working with the Adoptee Rights Demonstration whose original intent was exactly that?

Finally, you once again conflate me with Bastard Nation. You say "your membership".

As I told Gershom before all this hit, my actions with ARD/DAR were as a "GDI- God Damn Independent". I have no position with BN other than as a lifetime member.

When I said "BNers deserve the truth about the way you and other people currently with the ARD talk about us in spaces not publicly available."

I was not speaking on behalf of Bastard Nation. I have no authority to do so.

I was using "us" as BN members. About how you have spoken about "us" as BN members.

You know from my response in private that I have no position in BN.

I've already explained that to you.

I understand that you are hurt BLC, but the protes...

2008-06-04T17:00:00.000-04:00

I understand that you are hurt BLC, but the protest and what it stands for is not about personality. If we spent all our time battling egos, then we wouldn't accomplish anything.

I know politics makes tempers flare, but getting things done often means setting aside personal differences.

It is okay if you don't like me, that isn't my concern or focus, open records is my concern and focus, I am sure the majority of your membership feels the same way about open records and deserves to have that concern and focus addressed.

Joy it most certainly does relate to open records ...

2008-06-04T16:43:00.000-04:00

Joy it most certainly does relate to open records when people currently with Demo do and say one set of things in private spaces, and then put on a completely different act in public spaces.

You come here trying to sound all lovey lovey towards BNers, but the bottom line is, that's not how you personally behaved on the Adult Adoptees forum.

As for those of us who have worked for years for open records, it's past time we started calling you on your personal behaviour.

BNers deserve the truth about the way you and other people currently with the ARD talk about us in spaces not publicly available.

P.S. any BN'ers looking for protest news can also ...

2008-06-04T16:36:00.000-04:00

P.S. any BN'ers looking for protest news can also come and join

http://www.adultadoptees.org/forum/

It's easy and it is free.

signed,

Eric/Please-don't-talk-about-adoption, Joy's of Joy's Division Wordpress's Important Partner.

Sorry, BLCdon't see how your comment relates to op...

2008-06-04T07:10:00.000-04:00

Sorry, BLC

don't see how your comment relates to open records.

Comments on The Daily Bastardette: ANNOUNCEMENT! BASTARD NATION WITHDRAWS FROM A DAY...

It has troubled me for a year that so many in the ...

""From Kevan,Too many Che Guevara's and not enough...

Love it, Kevan!

From Kevan, Too many Che Guevara's and not enough ...

blah fucking blah.who cares?Like anyone who knows ...

As of 12:52 today I'm calling a personal moratoriu...

Okay... I'm ready to move on.

roflol Sabina, i will continue this conversation o...

As a 15-year vet of alt.adoption I'm quite use to ...

Out of curiosity, I went over and read the thread....

About list 'confidentiality'-After I found out Amy...

GershomLet's be clear, Ron asked me to "be our vol...

Yes marley, but sabina, has been posting stuff off...

I have no desire to get into this with anybody at ...

Sabina, you don't know about the adoptee rights de...

BLC is referring to the nicey-nice face you put on...

Anon said-"And a certain someone has quite an ego ...

*Yawn*This has been going on for days. Can we mov...

Keep spinning Joy.I'll note you did not answer my ...

I understand that you are upset, but from my exper...

Joy,Do not try to make this some kind of 'wounded ...

I understand that you are hurt BLC, but the protes...

Joy it most certainly does relate to open records ...

P.S. any BN'ers looking for protest news can also ...

Sorry, BLCdon't see how your comment relates to op...

YawnThis has been going on for days. Can we mov...